Antipodean Anecdotes 3: Vote Yes in Australia
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Title : Antipodean Anecdotes 3: Vote Yes in Australia
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Title : Antipodean Anecdotes 3: Vote Yes in Australia
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Interestingly enough, whilst we do have gay marriage in the UK and the US, neither Cameron or Obama put it up to a referendum, they just used their powers to push it through and made it law. Other countries have actually put this up to a vote and have pushed through gay marriage based on the results of a vote (be it within a senate/parliament or an open referendum): Uruguay, Ireland, Switzerland voted to approve gay marriage, whilst a similar referendum was held in Slovenia in 2015 and it was a crushing defeat for gay rights when 63.5% of the voters said no to gay marriage. If we had a referendum in the UK for gay marriage, I don't even dare to predict what the outcome would be - for that matter, I am relieved that Cameron just pushed it through without consulting the people because Brexit brought out so much xenophobic hate against the Eastern European immigrants. Such a gay marriage referendum as the one they are conducting in Australia right now will only bring out more anti-gay hatred. Oh that doesn't mean that we should back down on the issue of gay marriage just to pacify the hateful bigots - I'm just saying that what Cameron and Obama did was right and I'm disappointed that Malcolm Turnbull, PM of Australia, just didn't have the balls to take the same approach on this issue.
What we need is a benevolent dictator rather than a leader who seeks approval for every decision s/he makes. Do you think that the American Emancipation Proclamation would have been signed if it had been put to a referendum? No, a civil war had to be fought for that to have happened. Do you think the women would have been granted the right to vote in so many countries if it had been left to a referendum? Of course, a lot of that would depend on whether women were allowed to vote in such a referendum in the first place. And what about the death penalty? Even in a country like the UK where the death penalty had been abolished since 1964, there is still a lot of support for the death penalty and even talk of using Brexit to bring back the death penalty. I feel that such important decisions about capital punishment should be left to law experts and judges rather than housewives and taxi drivers - that is why we are not going to have a referendum on the issue of capital punishment. No, the government simply takes the decision and we don't get a say in the matter. So if that is the case with capital punishment, why is the issue of gay marriage any different in Australia then? Why are you allowing everyone to have a say in this issue but not others - such as capital punishment then? Incidentally the death penalty has been abolished in Australia too, since 1967.
The problem with turning a decision over to the voters is that you get the wrong result: as was the case in the Brexit referendum. Let me give you a simple example: nobody likes paying taxes. We have worked hard to earn our money and giving part of it up to the government is something we would love to avoid if we can. Imagine if there was a referendum tomorrow to reduce or even abolish income tax and GST/VAT altogether - would the voters think, "wait a minute, if I don't pay income tax, how are public services going to be funded? Who is going to pay the policemen, the nurses, the firemen, the civil servants? What will actually happen? This is insanity, things will fall apart by the end of the week. No, we need to pay our taxes, even if we don't like it. Let's be sensible and reasonable about the issue of income tax." I think most people would vote to abolish personal income tax and expect the government to somehow plug that hole in their finances by taxing someone else like big businesses - they are hardly happy with the current situation and would gladly upset the apple cart just because they have little to lose: this was exactly what happened with Brexit and Trump. Individuals think mostly about how their decision will affect them and maybe their families, but a minister, a president or prime minister needs to look at the big picture and considers how such a decision would affect the whole country.
But what about the will of the people, what about democracy? Well, there is a difficult balance to strike here: we have seen the way the government of Spain has gone out of their way, shamelessly using police brutality to try to obstruct the independence referendum in Catalonia recently. This really upset me, along with a lot of people of course because I strongly felt that if the people of Catalonia want to organize such a referendum then by all means, let them do it and then deal with the results later. Recent referendums for Scottish and Qubecois independence have not resulted in the break up of the UK or Canada, but both countries have managed to deal with the issue in a very civilized way with no police violence at all. I believe there is the right time for a referendum - such as in the case of Catalonia because only a fairly run referendum can truly ascertain whether or not the people of Catalonia still want to remain a part of Spain; but when it comes to issues concerning the very fundamentals of law? I believe that democracy still works: we elect official representatives in the form of MPs to make decisions on our behalf when they go to parliament. So laws and legislations are passed by them on our behalf and they act as our democratically elected political representatives in that process. Now this process only works if we elect someone credible to represent us in parliament, but even such a process can result in the election of Donald Trump as president. It isn't perfect, but it is what we have an in most cases, in most countries, it does serve the people reasonably well.
Turning our attention back to Australia, we don't quite know what the outcome of the gay marriage referendum will be. All we know is that the result is going to be close, much like the Brexit vote. Turnout is a huge issue as well - you see, in Australia, you have to register to vote but once your name is on the electoral register, voting is compulsory. But if you have not registered to vote yet, well then you're not in the system and there is no penalty for not voting. It is incredible that many young people actually see voting as a burden and thus are very hesitant about registering to vote at all - willingly giving up their democratic right to have a say through the ballot box because they think they just can't be bothered to vote on the day. Indeed, political apathy amongst young people played a big part in Brexit and the election of Trump - where older people who were far more likely to vote also voted for Brexit and Trump, whilst younger people couldn't be asked to vote even if they didn't necessarily support Brexit or Trump. So right now, there is a lot of frustration in Australia at this gap between public support and turnout: there is a concerted effort right now to try to get younger Australians to vote in this referendum but as we have seen in the cases of Brexit and Trump, this is clearly where the problem lies. At least in Australia now, they are not as complacent as we were previously. Lessons have been learnt but can that affect the outcome?
I did a walking tour in Sydney and had a long chat with my guide who was gay; he spoke quite frankly about the issue. I asked him what he thinks the results will be, "I don't know - it will be close but I certainly hope that it will be a yes. But this doesn't automatically mean that we will get gay marriage in Australia - a yes result will simply mean that it would pave the way for a parliamentary debate and vote that would eventually lead to gay marriage. It seems needlessly complex to have to go through that process - why not just put it to the parliament and let them deal with it at that level? Why go through the process of a referendum when the results is not binding in any case? It has brought out so much division in Australia, so much anger: we're now walking around downtown Sydney and it is easy to think that Australia is a progressive and tolerant nation. That's not always the case: big cities like Sydney and Melbourne certainly are progressive and tolerant but once you go out into the countryside, it is another culture, another world altogether. People are different out there and I believe you experienced the same thing with Brexit when you Londoners couldn't have predicted how strong the anti-EU feeling was outside the capital. Many tourists who visit Australia never get out of the big cities like Sydney so they come away with the impression that Australia is just like Sydney but that's not the case at all."
"But it is not like this issue has popped out from no where, Australia has been debating about gay marriage for such a long time and we're the only English-speaking Western nation who has yet to embrace gay marriage - that is disgraceful, shocking. There is already some form of de facto marriage equivalent for same sex couples in Australia, this varies from state to state and some states call it civil or domestic partnerships but we're not allowed to use the word 'marriage' because under the current laws, that's still only defined as between a man and a woman. It is an emotive subject for the religious groups in Australia." I could sense that he was being careful with his words, so I told him that it was painful for us on the liberal left to be forced to fight our corner with the Christian church because we don't necessarily hate Christians, but holy shit, most of them not only hate gays but use gays as a scapegoat for everything wrong with the world. You don't see Buddhists or Hindus having such a vendetta against the LGBT community, but the Christians are particularly nasty in this aspect. That was when my guide pointed out that there have been several churches in Australia who have come out in support of the Vote Yes campaign, "but yes, the link between the vote no campaign and religion is inextricable, no doubt about that."
I am not going to censor myself: the Australian Anglican church is unashamed about just how nasty and bigoted they are. They proudly announced that they donated A$1 million towards the 'vote no' campaign - just think of how much good that one million dollars could have been spent on. How about helping terminally ill sick children? Or the homeless people (plenty of them on the streets of Sydney)? Victims of domestic abuse? Refugees desperate to rebuild their lives? But no, somehow oppressing gay people trumps all of those other needs - which makes the Anglican church in Australia the biggest, nastiest hypocrites out there. I am an ex-Christian and I've read the bible properly, I've attended enough Sunday school classes when I was younger to learn that this Jesus character is actually full of love and compassion; whilst these Christians are filled with so much hate and self-righteousness. They are using the argument that they need to protect the original definition of marriage - which is utter bullshit given how divorce rates are at an all-time high and the real reason why attitudes towards marriage are changing is because our society is evolving and allowing gay people to marry isn't going to stop straight people from marrying. I don't have a problem with the church telling their own members what to do when it comes to marriage - but when they start trying to influence the law, the law that affects non-Christians, atheists like me, then I would say please get your bible out of my atheist, non-believer face. Thankfully, not all churches in Australia are like that - I did pass several churches which proudly displayed rainbow flags and Vote Yes signs in front of their churches to demonstrate that they are pro-equality.
My AirBNB hosts in Melbourne were a gay couple as well and in front of their house was a big "Vote Yes" sign - I spoke to them as well about the referendum and once again, they were equally unsure. "Of course we know what we'd like to happen, but we are aware of how this whole referendum has been poorly organized. I don't even know where to begin to play the blame game - but the thought of us losing this referendum is like, woah, what a slap in the face that would be. Yes sure we want gay marriage in Australia, but why can't we just let the parliament and the politicians deal with it, putting it to a referendum only makes the bigots on the ground rise up and vent their hatred at the gays. I have seen vote yes signs being vandalized and that's just the tip of the iceberg of the kind of hatred there is, bubbling under the surface, just waiting for any excuse to explode. We live and work in a nice suburb in Melbourne, you see nice houses with beautifully landscaped gardens, people driving nice cars, affluent middle class folks being very liberal: but this isn't representative of all of Australia, not by a long way. I came from a humble working class family, you should see the neighbourhood where I grew up, it was rough, we didn't have much money at all. I can't imagine there being much support for gay marriage there - the people there are angry, they want someone, something to blame and whilst the gays didn't put them there, in that neighbourhood, well, they're choosing to take out their frustration on the gays. Go figure. People don't really talk aboutthe correlation between sexuality, equality and poverty, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in that neighbourhood who would gladly hang a Vote Yes poster in their window."
My personal response to this issue is that I feel emotionally invested in this: everyone whom I talked to about the issue assured me that they will vote yes, especially the straight people. Oh it's almost like them clarifying, "I'm gay-friendly! I'm progressive! I'm not one of those uneducated bigots in the outback!" They wear their liberalism like a badge of honour, but that's almost something one would take for granted in the big cities where I had visited. It would be far harder to find people like that in rural Australia - here's an interesting fact: Australia is actually a highly urbanized country despite the fact that most of it is very sparsely populated. About 89% Australians live in towns and cities whilst only 11% live in the countryside - this varies from state to state of course, but the bottom line is that not many people live out in the countryside as most of the Australian outback is quite harsh and inhospitable. that goes to show that if it was a straight forward urban vs rural divide when it comes to the gay marriage issue, then it would be a slam dunk victory for the yes vote but that's clearly not the case. Indeed in the UK, the Brexit result was never a straight forward urban-rural divide either and even within London, there were substantial variations in the level of support for the EU. It is painful to see the way so many Christians hide behind their religion whilst spewing so much hatred and bigotry towards the gay community - I don't wake up in the morning thinking about how much I hate Christians, but when they spew that much vile hatred in my direction, it is hard not to reciprocate.
I don't know what to think about the issue - I'm afraid that if I got my hopes up, I would be disappointed should this go the way of Brexit and Trump. In the battle of good vs evil, of course I know what kind of outcome I want but I suppose it is easy for me not to think too much about it now that I am back in the UK. But gosh, I want and need this to be a good news story, for good to finally triumph over evil. For the rational liberals to triumph over the Christian church at last. This issue does present a fundamental conflict of principle for a liberal like me: how can I oppose the concept of a referendum when it is in the very essence of democracy to give people a say in the way their country is governed? Can the means justify the end, if the right result is delivered? How do you think Australia is going to vote? Let me know what you think, do leave a comment below please. Many thanks for reading.
Hi there, in my most recent trip to Australia, I visited three cities: Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne. I wish I had more time to see more of Australia but I will probably return next spring given that it is more than likely that my partner will be working there for a while. One of the most striking memories I have of Sydney was the way there were rainbow flags everywhere, proudly encouraging people to Vote Yes in the upcoming gay marriage referendum. Just when I thought that Sydney was such a tolerant, progressive, gay-friendly place, someone spent a lot of money to hire a crop-dusting plane to write the words 'vote no' in the skies over Sydney during the Sydney marathon. It was a shocking reminder that this vote is going to come down to a knife-edge, that no one dares to predict the result. Having been through Brexit and the election of Trump, this seems to be yet another good vs evil episode where I am reminded that such referendums and elections only expose how divided we are as a society. It is a thoroughly depressing thought.
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| Australia: make the right choice, vote yes! |
Interestingly enough, whilst we do have gay marriage in the UK and the US, neither Cameron or Obama put it up to a referendum, they just used their powers to push it through and made it law. Other countries have actually put this up to a vote and have pushed through gay marriage based on the results of a vote (be it within a senate/parliament or an open referendum): Uruguay, Ireland, Switzerland voted to approve gay marriage, whilst a similar referendum was held in Slovenia in 2015 and it was a crushing defeat for gay rights when 63.5% of the voters said no to gay marriage. If we had a referendum in the UK for gay marriage, I don't even dare to predict what the outcome would be - for that matter, I am relieved that Cameron just pushed it through without consulting the people because Brexit brought out so much xenophobic hate against the Eastern European immigrants. Such a gay marriage referendum as the one they are conducting in Australia right now will only bring out more anti-gay hatred. Oh that doesn't mean that we should back down on the issue of gay marriage just to pacify the hateful bigots - I'm just saying that what Cameron and Obama did was right and I'm disappointed that Malcolm Turnbull, PM of Australia, just didn't have the balls to take the same approach on this issue.
What we need is a benevolent dictator rather than a leader who seeks approval for every decision s/he makes. Do you think that the American Emancipation Proclamation would have been signed if it had been put to a referendum? No, a civil war had to be fought for that to have happened. Do you think the women would have been granted the right to vote in so many countries if it had been left to a referendum? Of course, a lot of that would depend on whether women were allowed to vote in such a referendum in the first place. And what about the death penalty? Even in a country like the UK where the death penalty had been abolished since 1964, there is still a lot of support for the death penalty and even talk of using Brexit to bring back the death penalty. I feel that such important decisions about capital punishment should be left to law experts and judges rather than housewives and taxi drivers - that is why we are not going to have a referendum on the issue of capital punishment. No, the government simply takes the decision and we don't get a say in the matter. So if that is the case with capital punishment, why is the issue of gay marriage any different in Australia then? Why are you allowing everyone to have a say in this issue but not others - such as capital punishment then? Incidentally the death penalty has been abolished in Australia too, since 1967.
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| I am conflicted over whether democracy will deliver the right result. |
The problem with turning a decision over to the voters is that you get the wrong result: as was the case in the Brexit referendum. Let me give you a simple example: nobody likes paying taxes. We have worked hard to earn our money and giving part of it up to the government is something we would love to avoid if we can. Imagine if there was a referendum tomorrow to reduce or even abolish income tax and GST/VAT altogether - would the voters think, "wait a minute, if I don't pay income tax, how are public services going to be funded? Who is going to pay the policemen, the nurses, the firemen, the civil servants? What will actually happen? This is insanity, things will fall apart by the end of the week. No, we need to pay our taxes, even if we don't like it. Let's be sensible and reasonable about the issue of income tax." I think most people would vote to abolish personal income tax and expect the government to somehow plug that hole in their finances by taxing someone else like big businesses - they are hardly happy with the current situation and would gladly upset the apple cart just because they have little to lose: this was exactly what happened with Brexit and Trump. Individuals think mostly about how their decision will affect them and maybe their families, but a minister, a president or prime minister needs to look at the big picture and considers how such a decision would affect the whole country.
But what about the will of the people, what about democracy? Well, there is a difficult balance to strike here: we have seen the way the government of Spain has gone out of their way, shamelessly using police brutality to try to obstruct the independence referendum in Catalonia recently. This really upset me, along with a lot of people of course because I strongly felt that if the people of Catalonia want to organize such a referendum then by all means, let them do it and then deal with the results later. Recent referendums for Scottish and Qubecois independence have not resulted in the break up of the UK or Canada, but both countries have managed to deal with the issue in a very civilized way with no police violence at all. I believe there is the right time for a referendum - such as in the case of Catalonia because only a fairly run referendum can truly ascertain whether or not the people of Catalonia still want to remain a part of Spain; but when it comes to issues concerning the very fundamentals of law? I believe that democracy still works: we elect official representatives in the form of MPs to make decisions on our behalf when they go to parliament. So laws and legislations are passed by them on our behalf and they act as our democratically elected political representatives in that process. Now this process only works if we elect someone credible to represent us in parliament, but even such a process can result in the election of Donald Trump as president. It isn't perfect, but it is what we have an in most cases, in most countries, it does serve the people reasonably well.
Turning our attention back to Australia, we don't quite know what the outcome of the gay marriage referendum will be. All we know is that the result is going to be close, much like the Brexit vote. Turnout is a huge issue as well - you see, in Australia, you have to register to vote but once your name is on the electoral register, voting is compulsory. But if you have not registered to vote yet, well then you're not in the system and there is no penalty for not voting. It is incredible that many young people actually see voting as a burden and thus are very hesitant about registering to vote at all - willingly giving up their democratic right to have a say through the ballot box because they think they just can't be bothered to vote on the day. Indeed, political apathy amongst young people played a big part in Brexit and the election of Trump - where older people who were far more likely to vote also voted for Brexit and Trump, whilst younger people couldn't be asked to vote even if they didn't necessarily support Brexit or Trump. So right now, there is a lot of frustration in Australia at this gap between public support and turnout: there is a concerted effort right now to try to get younger Australians to vote in this referendum but as we have seen in the cases of Brexit and Trump, this is clearly where the problem lies. At least in Australia now, they are not as complacent as we were previously. Lessons have been learnt but can that affect the outcome?
I did a walking tour in Sydney and had a long chat with my guide who was gay; he spoke quite frankly about the issue. I asked him what he thinks the results will be, "I don't know - it will be close but I certainly hope that it will be a yes. But this doesn't automatically mean that we will get gay marriage in Australia - a yes result will simply mean that it would pave the way for a parliamentary debate and vote that would eventually lead to gay marriage. It seems needlessly complex to have to go through that process - why not just put it to the parliament and let them deal with it at that level? Why go through the process of a referendum when the results is not binding in any case? It has brought out so much division in Australia, so much anger: we're now walking around downtown Sydney and it is easy to think that Australia is a progressive and tolerant nation. That's not always the case: big cities like Sydney and Melbourne certainly are progressive and tolerant but once you go out into the countryside, it is another culture, another world altogether. People are different out there and I believe you experienced the same thing with Brexit when you Londoners couldn't have predicted how strong the anti-EU feeling was outside the capital. Many tourists who visit Australia never get out of the big cities like Sydney so they come away with the impression that Australia is just like Sydney but that's not the case at all."
I am not going to censor myself: the Australian Anglican church is unashamed about just how nasty and bigoted they are. They proudly announced that they donated A$1 million towards the 'vote no' campaign - just think of how much good that one million dollars could have been spent on. How about helping terminally ill sick children? Or the homeless people (plenty of them on the streets of Sydney)? Victims of domestic abuse? Refugees desperate to rebuild their lives? But no, somehow oppressing gay people trumps all of those other needs - which makes the Anglican church in Australia the biggest, nastiest hypocrites out there. I am an ex-Christian and I've read the bible properly, I've attended enough Sunday school classes when I was younger to learn that this Jesus character is actually full of love and compassion; whilst these Christians are filled with so much hate and self-righteousness. They are using the argument that they need to protect the original definition of marriage - which is utter bullshit given how divorce rates are at an all-time high and the real reason why attitudes towards marriage are changing is because our society is evolving and allowing gay people to marry isn't going to stop straight people from marrying. I don't have a problem with the church telling their own members what to do when it comes to marriage - but when they start trying to influence the law, the law that affects non-Christians, atheists like me, then I would say please get your bible out of my atheist, non-believer face. Thankfully, not all churches in Australia are like that - I did pass several churches which proudly displayed rainbow flags and Vote Yes signs in front of their churches to demonstrate that they are pro-equality.
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| Why does the Christian church hate gays so much? |
My AirBNB hosts in Melbourne were a gay couple as well and in front of their house was a big "Vote Yes" sign - I spoke to them as well about the referendum and once again, they were equally unsure. "Of course we know what we'd like to happen, but we are aware of how this whole referendum has been poorly organized. I don't even know where to begin to play the blame game - but the thought of us losing this referendum is like, woah, what a slap in the face that would be. Yes sure we want gay marriage in Australia, but why can't we just let the parliament and the politicians deal with it, putting it to a referendum only makes the bigots on the ground rise up and vent their hatred at the gays. I have seen vote yes signs being vandalized and that's just the tip of the iceberg of the kind of hatred there is, bubbling under the surface, just waiting for any excuse to explode. We live and work in a nice suburb in Melbourne, you see nice houses with beautifully landscaped gardens, people driving nice cars, affluent middle class folks being very liberal: but this isn't representative of all of Australia, not by a long way. I came from a humble working class family, you should see the neighbourhood where I grew up, it was rough, we didn't have much money at all. I can't imagine there being much support for gay marriage there - the people there are angry, they want someone, something to blame and whilst the gays didn't put them there, in that neighbourhood, well, they're choosing to take out their frustration on the gays. Go figure. People don't really talk aboutthe correlation between sexuality, equality and poverty, but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in that neighbourhood who would gladly hang a Vote Yes poster in their window."
My personal response to this issue is that I feel emotionally invested in this: everyone whom I talked to about the issue assured me that they will vote yes, especially the straight people. Oh it's almost like them clarifying, "I'm gay-friendly! I'm progressive! I'm not one of those uneducated bigots in the outback!" They wear their liberalism like a badge of honour, but that's almost something one would take for granted in the big cities where I had visited. It would be far harder to find people like that in rural Australia - here's an interesting fact: Australia is actually a highly urbanized country despite the fact that most of it is very sparsely populated. About 89% Australians live in towns and cities whilst only 11% live in the countryside - this varies from state to state of course, but the bottom line is that not many people live out in the countryside as most of the Australian outback is quite harsh and inhospitable. that goes to show that if it was a straight forward urban vs rural divide when it comes to the gay marriage issue, then it would be a slam dunk victory for the yes vote but that's clearly not the case. Indeed in the UK, the Brexit result was never a straight forward urban-rural divide either and even within London, there were substantial variations in the level of support for the EU. It is painful to see the way so many Christians hide behind their religion whilst spewing so much hatred and bigotry towards the gay community - I don't wake up in the morning thinking about how much I hate Christians, but when they spew that much vile hatred in my direction, it is hard not to reciprocate.
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| We need to learn from the mistakes of the past - enough hate already. |
I don't know what to think about the issue - I'm afraid that if I got my hopes up, I would be disappointed should this go the way of Brexit and Trump. In the battle of good vs evil, of course I know what kind of outcome I want but I suppose it is easy for me not to think too much about it now that I am back in the UK. But gosh, I want and need this to be a good news story, for good to finally triumph over evil. For the rational liberals to triumph over the Christian church at last. This issue does present a fundamental conflict of principle for a liberal like me: how can I oppose the concept of a referendum when it is in the very essence of democracy to give people a say in the way their country is governed? Can the means justify the end, if the right result is delivered? How do you think Australia is going to vote? Let me know what you think, do leave a comment below please. Many thanks for reading.
That's an article Antipodean Anecdotes 3: Vote Yes in Australia
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You are now reading the article Antipodean Anecdotes 3: Vote Yes in Australia With link address https://newstoday-ok.blogspot.com/2017/10/antipodean-anecdotes-3-vote-yes-in.html